Do I need to risk and take the chance or drop the project as a scam? Your advice is appreciated.
Thread poster: William Yang
William Yang
William Yang
China
Local time: 10:28
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Apr 23, 2021

I was contacted for a project initiated by a translation agency today. The offer was lucrative but with a condition which seemed unacceptable and I didn't hear of before. It requested me to deposit some money(not much and refundable) to start the project for security reasons.
Do you have any similar experience? Or could you give me any suggestions?

[Edited at 2021-04-24 09:29 GMT]


 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 02:28
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
It seems a pay-to-work scam Apr 23, 2021

I would never agree to do a translation and have to pay anything in advance, or make an upfront deposit even for security reasons.
I have never heard of such a condition.
It seems to me the old pay-to-work scam.
Please check this page before engaging in any negotiation:
https://www.proz.com/about/translator-scam-alerts/default
In your place, I would
... See more
I would never agree to do a translation and have to pay anything in advance, or make an upfront deposit even for security reasons.
I have never heard of such a condition.
It seems to me the old pay-to-work scam.
Please check this page before engaging in any negotiation:
https://www.proz.com/about/translator-scam-alerts/default
In your place, I would stay away!
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Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Matthias Brombach
Yolanda Broad
ahartje
Barbara Carrara
Liviu-Lee Roth
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 02:28
Japanese to English
100% a scam Apr 23, 2021

Yubing Yang wrote:
It requested me to deposit some money(not much and refundable) to start the project for security reason.

It's 100% a scam. You won't see that money again and you won't get paid either. What kind of security reasons would require the freelancer to give them money? It's the client who should be paying you, not vice-versa. Delete their contact details and never speak to them again.


expressisverbis
Matthias Brombach
Yolanda Broad
ahartje
Barbara Carrara
Liviu-Lee Roth
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
William Yang
William Yang
China
Local time: 10:28
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sure they have more options to stay safe Apr 23, 2021

Thank you all for your suggestions and I will break off any contacts with the company. Sometimes we may need an agency to deposit to keep safe. I agree this is a spam. They have more options to stay safe and we, translators, are less protected/often exploited.

[Edited at 2021-04-23 20:51 GMT]


Dalia Nour
 
Gerard de Noord
Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:28
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Don't be offended Apr 23, 2021

Take the risk, if it's a small sum.

Europeans are being scammed by Chinese merchants regularly. By paying a small sum you prove that you exist and that you are a human translator.

Work on that side of your marketing to attract more European customers.

Cheers,
Gerard


Edward Potter
 
William Yang
William Yang
China
Local time: 10:28
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you for the advice, another advice Apr 23, 2021

Gerard de Noord wrote:

Take the risk, if it's a small sum.

Europeans are being scammed by Chinese merchants regularly. By paying a small sum you prove that you exist and that you are a human translator.

Work on that side of your marketing to attract more European customers.

Cheers,
Gerard

Thanks Gerard,

Translators don't earn billions or even millions a year, markets are large enough and there's supply and demand there. You cannot make a horse drink if it doesn't want to

[Edited at 2021-04-24 09:15 GMT]


Dalia Nour
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:28
Spanish to English
+ ...
Think! Apr 23, 2021

This is a huge planetwide problem, but the problem is usually us. Someone I don't even know walked into my translation joint the other day, and they said, "Hey, we've got a huge translation for you, but why don't you pay us first for us to give you all that work", and I said "Now why would I do that, and why are you still here?"

On reflection, I see that it's "refundable". Well, that's a relief, especially if you've got it in writing. So pay it, and wait for them to refund it on the
... See more
This is a huge planetwide problem, but the problem is usually us. Someone I don't even know walked into my translation joint the other day, and they said, "Hey, we've got a huge translation for you, but why don't you pay us first for us to give you all that work", and I said "Now why would I do that, and why are you still here?"

On reflection, I see that it's "refundable". Well, that's a relief, especially if you've got it in writing. So pay it, and wait for them to refund it on the Twelfth of Never.



[Edited at 2021-04-23 21:19 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-23 21:20 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-23 21:29 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-24 06:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-24 06:12 GMT]
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expressisverbis
P.L.F. Persio
Zibow Retailleau
Baran Keki
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Liviu-Lee Roth
William Bowley
 
Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:28
Serbian to English
+ ...
As a matter of fact ... Apr 23, 2021

many very genuine and often very large contracts (between businesses that usually know each other, if nothing else by reputation) require from the winning bidder to put FIRST a deposit of about 10-15% of the value of the whole tender (usually not in actual money, but in form of bank guarantee) before being allowed to start any work, called a "guarantee for the good execution of the contract"

The rationale being that if the contractor makes a dog's dinner of the work, then no
... See more
many very genuine and often very large contracts (between businesses that usually know each other, if nothing else by reputation) require from the winning bidder to put FIRST a deposit of about 10-15% of the value of the whole tender (usually not in actual money, but in form of bank guarantee) before being allowed to start any work, called a "guarantee for the good execution of the contract"

The rationale being that if the contractor makes a dog's dinner of the work, then not only they will be paid zilch, but also the deposit will be used to clean the mess before the work is given to someone else. A way of making cowboy builders an extinct species in contracts with large clients.

Having said that, this particular instance of requesting a "guarantee for the good execution of the contract" looks far too much like a scam.

Not to mention that following the same logic, the translator should request the full amount of the translation contract to be put in escrow before even typing the first word. Ah well, that's an idea for a "counter-offer" ...
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Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:28
German to English
Nowadays, if it's lucrative ... Apr 23, 2021

... it's probably a scam. Some of the offers coming over the transom lately would barely pay for the electricity to run the computer, much less pay for a beer at an open-air restaurant.

Mervyn Henderson (X)
P.L.F. Persio
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
expressisverbis
Liviu-Lee Roth
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
From a scammer's point of view Apr 23, 2021

Imagine that you are a scammer. The hurdle you have to overcome is the fact that many translators know about scams; they are regularly discussed here, for example. How can you overcome a translator's wariness?

Simple. Offer something that a translator really wants (a lucrative potential job - those are getting rarer nowadays!) and ask for just a small amount of money. Not many translators would pay a large amount, because that's a big risk and most of us know about scams by n
... See more
Imagine that you are a scammer. The hurdle you have to overcome is the fact that many translators know about scams; they are regularly discussed here, for example. How can you overcome a translator's wariness?

Simple. Offer something that a translator really wants (a lucrative potential job - those are getting rarer nowadays!) and ask for just a small amount of money. Not many translators would pay a large amount, because that's a big risk and most of us know about scams by now, but there are some who would pay a small amount, especially if they think the potential gain is very big. It's like a lottery with a big jackpot. Lots of people buy tickets when the jackpot is really big. They know their chances of winning are very low - almost zero - but the risk seems worthwhile because the ticket price is so small, and the prize is so big. This big difference is the reason why people buy tickets. So a scammer is more likely to succeed with this "small risk" method. The scammer gains less, but a small gain is better than nothing, and this tactic should work more often.

For what "security purposes" could an outsourcer possibly want your money? There are many ways of confirming a person's identity, and most of them don't involve taking money. It's an interesting choice of "security measure", isn't it? I've worked for UK agencies for over 15 years, and I've never heard of any agencies here using that method. So I believe your "UK company" is relying on the "small risk" principle I mentioned above, except that I don't think the "jackpot" (the lucrative job) exists. You'd be better off buying a lottery ticket with the money!

[Edited at 2021-04-24 08:09 GMT]
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
P.L.F. Persio
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
expressisverbis
Liviu-Lee Roth
Thayenga
Dalia Nour
 
Mohamad Alayoubi
Mohamad Alayoubi
Lebanon
Local time: 04:28
English to Arabic
Definitely a scam Apr 23, 2021

Get away, as fast as possible.

 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:28
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Go for it, but ... Apr 24, 2021

Yubing Yang wrote:

I was contacted for a project initiated by a UK company today. The offer was lucrative but with a condition which seemed unacceptable and I didn't hear of before. It requested me to deposit some money(not much and refundable) to start the project for security reason. Or could you give me any suggestions?

[Edited at 2021-04-23 18:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-04-23 18:46 GMT]

... propose to them, that for other security reasons you can only offer some tangibles as a deposit, i.e. the Rolex you may have bought for 30 USD on the poultry market stall downtown (and that is much more worth, of course) or, as a better alternative, one of those numerous overpayment checks you will have received in your career. In the first case, check their IP and you will see, that UK isn't too far away from the place where you live (therefore deposing the Rolex won't cost you too much both in time and money), and for the second case, they may keep 30 % of the amount covered by the check, and let them send the rest back to you in cash (or by paypal or Western Union), before you start the project. If in need of an overpayment check they probably can help you out too.


Mervyn Henderson (X)
P.L.F. Persio
Baran Keki
expressisverbis
 
William Yang
William Yang
China
Local time: 10:28
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The discussion is over, thanks everyone for your participation Apr 24, 2021

Thanks and god bless you all.


[Edited at 2021-04-24 09:35 GMT]


 
Jean Dimitriadis
Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
A different POV Apr 24, 2021

No need to drop anything, just don't pick it up...

Baran Keki
Mervyn Henderson (X)
P.L.F. Persio
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Thayenga
 
Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:28
Serbian to English
+ ...
In average, it well may be true ... Apr 27, 2021

Kevin Fulton wrote:

Nowadays, if it's lucrative ... ... it's probably a scam. Some of the offers coming over the transom lately would barely pay for the electricity to run the computer, much less pay for a beer at an open-air restaurant.



In average, it well may be true ...

But this kind of negative attitude can all too easily turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.


 


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Do I need to risk and take the chance or drop the project as a scam? Your advice is appreciated.







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