| Страници во темата: [1 2] > | Is the term 'professional' merely a cliche? Лице кое објавува дискусија: Sandesh Ghimire
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Given that everyone is using this term, e.g. I am a professional translator with a professional experience of over blab blab years? What makes a translator professional? Any demarcation line between the truly professional ones and the hoaxes?
| | | | | Professional | Apr 19, 2015 |
As per the google dictionary :
pro·fes·sion·al
prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried
"a professional rugby player"
In a nutshell, if you charge for it, and can live off of what you earn, you're a professional. Of course, what is implied is that you are competent enough to liv... See more As per the google dictionary :
pro·fes·sion·al
prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried
"a professional rugby player"
In a nutshell, if you charge for it, and can live off of what you earn, you're a professional. Of course, what is implied is that you are competent enough to live (and hopefully live well) from your craft. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
Обединето Кралство
Local time: 07:05
Член (2008)
италијански на англиски
| Behaviour and attitude | Apr 19, 2015 |
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
Given that everyone is using this term, e.g. I am a professional translator with a professional experience of over blab blab years? What makes a translator professional? Any demarcation line between the truly professional ones and the hoaxes?
It's about behaving in a professional manner, i.e being demonstrably serious, experienced, skilful, and competent and acting dependably, honestly, and reliably towards one's interlocutors. In a word: professional means dignity.
| | | | | Two meanings | Apr 19, 2015 |
Well, it has two meanings. On the one hand, anything you get paid for can be called 'professional'. On the other, it implies certain standards and behaviours, such as:
* Regularly participating in CPD
* Only taking work you know you are competent to do
* Charging rates that allow you to do a good job
* Being a member of a professional association
* Maintaining confidentiality
* Keeping to agreements
* Contributing to the profession in some way
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| Professional translator's definition - my 2 or 3 cents | Apr 19, 2015 |
Arianne Farah wrote:
In a nutshell, if you charge for it, and can live off of what you earn, you're a professional. Of course, what is implied is that you are competent enough to live (and hopefully live well) from your craft.
+1
Tom in London wrote:
It's about behaving in a professional manner, i.e being demonstrably serious, experienced, skilful, and competent and acting dependably, honestly, and reliably towards one's interlocutors. In a word: professional means dignity.
+1
By combining both definitions, we may come up with the following definition:
"A professional translator is a person (1) who is engaged in translation and related services as his or her main occupation, and (2) who demonstrates commitment, reliability, competence, loyalty and integrity while serving his or her clients."
| | | | Ty Kendall 
Обединето Кралство
Local time: 07:05
еврејски на англиски
| In a nutshell: No | Apr 19, 2015 |
Is the term 'professional' merely a cliche?
Not at all.
How you define it is another question.
A PM I have dealings with thanked me the other week for my "professionalism" and all I did was deliver a project on time (at that time she informed me she was pulling her hair out because of two other 'translators' she was handling who had a) not delivered on time and b) churned out (in her words) "50 pages of Google Translate").
I would respectfully disagree with Arianne's definition (well, rather I would argue it's only a partial definition), as many of us know there are plenty of people in this 'industry' who are paid for their efforts as their main occupation and who most certainly are not professionals.
I'd say "professional / professionalism" has a number of aspects:
1) Be one's main paid occupation (as opposed to somebody's hobby or pastime).
2) I'd agree with Tom that it largely has to do with behaviour and attitude and a way of presenting yourself with integrity etc. and being honest, reliable,
3) Possessing a certain (high) level of skill and competency in the specific activity (i.e. translation, your languages) sufficient to distinguish oneself from an amateur or dilettante.
Any demarcation line between the truly professional ones and the hoaxes?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Anyone can claim anything on this site, references, credentials and professional memberships go some way to attesting to someone's potential professionalism, but are not a guarantee of it.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Холандија
Local time: 08:05
Член (2006)
англиски на африканс
+ ...
| Depends on how or where you use it | Apr 19, 2015 |
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
Given that everyone is using this term, e.g. I am a professional translator with a professional experience of over blab blab years? What makes a translator professional?
All paid translators are "professional" in the sense that they're not amateurs, so when ProZ.com and paid translators use the word "professional" they generally mean something more, i.e. that the translator behaves professionally.
However, professional behaviour means different things to different people. For some, it is the ability to be unbending and business-like in all circumstances. For others, it is means almost the opposite, namely to serve the client as best as one can. Some would call a translator who is willing to relax his rate and availability "unprofessional", but others would call a translator who is unyielding in his demands "unprofessional".
| | | | | any word can be misused | Apr 19, 2015 |
A professional has the competence in his or her field. Usually that involves education and training of some kind. Usually a professional does that activity to earn a living. One might argue, however, that someone doing a translations competently and not always charging for them, may be doing work of professional quality, while someone who charges for carelessly done garbage without the skills needed, is not doing professional quality work, even if they area earning money (the other part of "p... See more A professional has the competence in his or her field. Usually that involves education and training of some kind. Usually a professional does that activity to earn a living. One might argue, however, that someone doing a translations competently and not always charging for them, may be doing work of professional quality, while someone who charges for carelessly done garbage without the skills needed, is not doing professional quality work, even if they area earning money (the other part of "professional").
No, it is not a cliche. But it can be misused. ▲ Collapse
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| Advice for agencies | Apr 19, 2015 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
A PM I have dealings with thanked me the other week for my "professionalism" and all I did was deliver a project on time (at that time she informed me she was pulling her hair out because of two other 'translators' she was handling who had a) not delivered on time and b) churned out (in her words) "50 pages of Google Translate").
...
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
It seems that in the situation above (late delivery "of 50 pages of Google Translate") the PM did not quite like the pudding she had for breakfast (or was it lunch?). I wonder what rates she had negotiated with those 'translators'. Perhaps, it might be advisable for those acting as vendor recruitment and management professionals in various translation companies and agencies to read the following quote which seems very relevant to this discussion:
"If you think a professional is expensive, wait 'til you try an amateur" - Paul Neal "Red" Adair (June 18, 1915 – August 7, 2004), an American oil well firefighter who became notable as an innovator in the highly specialized and extremely hazardous profession of extinguishing and capping blazing, erupting oil well blowouts, both land-based and offshore.
Don't wait until your client erupts. Otherwise, you can end up like Pompeians one of these days
[Edited at 2015-04-19 12:21 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Шпанија
Local time: 07:05
Член (2007)
англиски
+ ...
| Why are there so many UNprofessional freelance translators? | Apr 19, 2015 |
I saw a big change when I was working in France. When I first registered as a freelancer back in 1998 (EFL trainer at that time), you had to pay a minimum of social security contributions etc, and it was quite a high minimum. It was also quite complicated to get registered and stay legal. And doing freelance work (legally) meant that you were first and foremost regarded as self-employed, even if you had a salaried job too. Around ten years later they brought in a pay-as-you-earn status that was ... See more
| | | | Ty Kendall
Обединето Кралство
Local time: 07:05
еврејски на англиски
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
I wonder what were the rates she had negotiated with those 'translators'
I dread to think!
| | | | DZiW (X)
Украина
англиски на руски
+ ...
People are prone to compare, classify, generalize and give names. That's ok.
Shortly,
1) a learner has to practice some XXXX hours (mostly non-stop) to achieve some YYYY level.
2) usually one can be either good at classic/humanities -OR- exact sciences; rarely both.
3) everything (including idling) takes its time and its toll.
As a PM once said, it takes some five years to graduate from the uni, so to be considered as a 'professional' one should be wor... See more People are prone to compare, classify, generalize and give names. That's ok.
Shortly,
1) a learner has to practice some XXXX hours (mostly non-stop) to achieve some YYYY level.
2) usually one can be either good at classic/humanities -OR- exact sciences; rarely both.
3) everything (including idling) takes its time and its toll.
As a PM once said, it takes some five years to graduate from the uni, so to be considered as a 'professional' one should be working in his field some five years too--without long brakes. Even now many hh/hrm/recruiters discard CVs with 'a professional', 'less than five years', and 'in more than five fields', let alone 'more than five foreign languages'.
It leads us to 'specialist-translator vs. translator-specialist' issue: (1) either one is really good (proficient) as a specialist in some field, but relatively poor in languages -OR- (2) one is really good at languages, but relatively poor in some field.
However, considering the modern trends, for a client/employer it's often preferably to employ a decent specialist in the field (who can already do the job) with some foreign language competency than a brilliant linguist with some specialization in the field, which puts translators/interpreters mostly as a secondary specialization.
Once our manager invited a native speaker as an interpreter and another native speaker as a specialist to assist us in our project... they both were of no use for us; guess why?)
Anyway, I don't think I'm a PRO in any field I translate, because I cannot completely replace (do a job of) a decent specialist in the field of my translation expertise. Perhaps, I'm just a decent translator/interpreter, because I'm still able to make local and foreign specialists understand each other.
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Actually, "You don't have to eat the whole egg to tell if it's rotten." ▲ Collapse
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| Language professionals and agencies | Apr 19, 2015 |
DZiW wrote:
Even now many hh/hrm/recruiters discard CVs with 'a professional', 'less than five years', and 'in more than five fields', let alone 'more than five foreign languages'.
Even now, many translation agencies in Moscow advertise their rates starting from USD 0.04 per source word (actually, their rates start from RUB 450.00 per 1,800 chrs (standard A4 page), which roughly translates into the above per-word rate).
At the same time, all of them claim that they only work with carefully selected language professionals and showcase favorable testimonials from well-known corporations on their respective websites.
These leads to three questions:
1. Are these big name clients really happy with what they get from these translation agencies?
2. Who are the language professionals these agencies rely upon?
3. If the agencies in question have top-notch translators in their approved vendor pools, why on earth those language professionals (in the literal sense) work for peanuts? I assume agencies retain at least 10% of the rate, which means translators get paid at about RUB 400.00 per standard page. In reality, I read complaints on Russian translation-related fora that agencies pay RUB 200.00 to RUB 300.00, i.e. as low as USD 0.016 per word.
At these rates, one is likely to keep very long hours to make a living... and longer hours still, if he or she wants to spend some time on CPD.
| | | | | agree with Arianne | Apr 19, 2015 |
When I say that I'm a full-time professional translator and editor, I mean that I translate and edit to earn my living and that I earn my living solely by translating and editing.
I also consider myself "professional" in the sense of "professionalism" and hope (and assume) that all or almost all of my clients do as well, but I leave it up to them to form an opinion about the matter. (I do not advertise myself as a really great, really knowledgeable, really professional, really frien... See more When I say that I'm a full-time professional translator and editor, I mean that I translate and edit to earn my living and that I earn my living solely by translating and editing.
I also consider myself "professional" in the sense of "professionalism" and hope (and assume) that all or almost all of my clients do as well, but I leave it up to them to form an opinion about the matter. (I do not advertise myself as a really great, really knowledgeable, really professional, really friendly and courteous, really conscientious translator who is also really good at English and really good at German - I state that I have degrees in my field of specialization from a target- and a source-language university, how long I have been earning my living as a translator and editor, and that I grew up speaking English in an English-speaking country.)
Maybe "professional" in my sense means less, but it is at least not prone to becoming a "cliché," because it is a statement of fact. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
Индија
Local time: 11:35
Член (2006)
англиски на хинди
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР НА САЈТОТ | The reality is any one can be a "professional translator" | Apr 20, 2015 |
There is no entry-level bar, there are no formal associations or government-recognized criteria (such as a license) for becoming a translator. Anyone who thinks he knows two languages (and he needn't really need to know them!) can declare himself a translator (a professional one at that!).
We are not like lawyers or doctors or architects or any other "professionals" who all need formal qualifications and licenses to practice their professions.
So, all that we can talk a... See more There is no entry-level bar, there are no formal associations or government-recognized criteria (such as a license) for becoming a translator. Anyone who thinks he knows two languages (and he needn't really need to know them!) can declare himself a translator (a professional one at that!).
We are not like lawyers or doctors or architects or any other "professionals" who all need formal qualifications and licenses to practice their professions.
So, all that we can talk about is of good and reliable translators (who are all professionals, by the way) and the nons.
In this motley scenario, the "professionals" for whom it is critical to succeed in their profession, try to distinguish themselves from the other "professionals" in various ways - such as by offering quality, timely, elegant translations; or by charging exorbitant rates; or by acquiring fancy degrees and qualifications - but all these don't make them an iota more professional than the rest, who are are all also professionals!
So that is the irony and the reality of our profession, and also its distinguishing characteristic.
[Edited at 2015-04-21 02:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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