Translation is approximation by guesstimation

Yan Yuliang wrote:



How about this:
若我们有合理证据怀疑上游供应商....，我们将立即.....
这样感觉更像中文的习惯表达。


把reasonable risk翻译成了“有合理证据怀疑”，不知可否？请指正。

Loise wrote:


我觉得有合理证据怀疑的中文听起来挺顺的。但“证据”——proof的意思太强，这表示已经有了物质性的具体事实，有了已经可以证实的风险。而reason的意思是比较弱的，它仅是出自合理逻辑判断所得的结论，尚未到达具体的、物质性的事实的程度，所以它跟proof还是有一点距离的。因此我觉得把证据这个字眼换成根据、依据似乎是比较贴切的。中文里，当我们说一个论点有根据、有依据，就表示这个论点是based on sound judgment。当你说，你“有合理依据怀疑……的风险”，这是你已经 identified a risk based on sound judgment。而我们把a reasonable risk 当成 a risk identified based on sound judgment 似乎是可以的……事实上，我们可以合理地怀疑、有理由、有依据、有根据的怀疑，但是当我们有了证据之后，就不必怀疑了——可以直接断言、下结论啦！

[Edited at 2014-05-17 06:05 GMT]

J.H. Wang wrote:

jinachen wrote:



When I was with a law office, “reasonable" quickly became the favorite vocabulary of every new analyst who worked there. At the time it drove me crazy, as I thought "reasonable" = "within reason" = having acceptable reasons = argument is logical etc., yet at the same time it was a shifting and fuzzy standard that I could not pin down.

After learning about law, I realize "reasonable doubt" in criminal law context and the "reasonable person" in civil law context are so important in law that these concepts are pounded into law students. In fact, "reasonable doubt" was supposed to be "reasonable doubt" of a "reasonable person". Considering this, no wonder "reasonable" holds a special place. When it comes to standards of proof, at least in Canada it is often explained quickly as "reasonable doubt" being lower than "on a balance of probabilities", which is 51% technically, but higher than an "air of reality", and that "beyond a reasonable doubt" being much higher than "on a balance". This explanation is not rigorous and leaves quite a range if we are thinking along the ruler of percentages, but is useful enough.

Inheriting this train of thought, I could think what is expressed in the original sentences is:
1. where "reasonable" doubt can get you aquitted in a criminal trial, "reasonable" risk (identified by a "reasonable person") is enough to suspend business, like "reasonable" grounds is enough for a warrant
2. where you find deviation from standard to be "reasonable" (based on what a "reasonable person" would agree with), you have to consider it a potential risk

This is a very interesting discussion, I learned a lot about the translation of this sensitive word. Thanks for sharing, Alan, Phil, wherestip and others.

Loise wrote:

我觉得有合理证据怀疑的中文听起来挺顺的。但“证据”——proof的意思太强，这表示已经有了物质性的具体事实，有了已经可以证实的风险。而reason的意思是比较弱的，它仅是出自合理逻辑判断所得的结论，尚未到达具体的、物质性的事实的程度，所以它跟proof还是有一点距离的。因此我觉得把证据这个字眼换成根据、依据似乎是比较贴切的。中文里，当我们说一个论点有根据、有依据，就表示这个论点是based on sound judgment。当你说，你“有合理依据怀疑……的风险”，这是你已经 identified a risk based on sound judgment。而我们把a reasonable risk 当成 a risk identified based on sound judgment 似乎是可以的……事实上，我们可以合理地怀疑、有理由、有依据、有根据的怀疑，但是当我们有了证据之后，就不必怀疑了——可以直接断言、下结论啦！

[Edited at 2014-05-17 06:05 GMT]

Alan Wang wrote:
而在同文另外一句中，合理两字直接译了出来。
Any reasonable inconsistency between a factual circumstance and a standard should be considered a risk with potential adverse impacts.
现实情况与标准之间存在的任何合理范围内的不一致的地方都应视为具有潜在负面影响的风险。

Fargoer wrote:

其实，合同中之所以使用“reasonable ” 这样的措辞，就是要规避繁琐的举证责任。也就是说，只要我可以合理推断存在这样的风险，我就有权中止合作。无需给出确凿无疑的证据。这是对控方有利的一种措辞。

Alan Wang wrote:

These two links may help:

Article XV Paragraph 2: http://cites.org/eng/disc/text.php

5th paragraph: http://cites.org/eng/disc/how.php

Still it's not enough and needs some guesswork.

Actually the end client asked: Is it possible to translate ‘postal decision’ and ‘postal procedure’ literally?

This is less asked. As i see it, if it is translated literally into Chinese, no one would know what they are meant. 邮政决定？ 邮政程序？

Fargoer wrote:



根据您给出的上下文，我猜这里的“postal decision” 是“信函决定书（或裁定书）”，而“postal precedure”是“函告程序”（大概是起草决定书、送交邮局投递、存档备案等程序吧？）。

参考下面链接中关于“postal decision”的说明。

http://www.patas.gov.uk/tmaadjudicators/tmayourhearing.htm

You will be notified of the Court’s decision by mail. It is important that you supply the Court with your correct address and telephone number to ensure you receive the Court’s ruling on your Request to Vacate Civil Assessment.