Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

оставленный при университете

English translation:

those the university decided to keep

Added to glossary by Susan Welsh
Apr 2, 2015 17:11
9 yrs ago
Russian term

оставленный при университете

Russian to English Social Sciences Psychology history of Russian psychology - Leontiev
Leontiev as a young man: "Я именовался внештатным младшим научным сотрудником, это что-то вроде аспиранта. Так именовались люди, которые были в категории так называемых **оставленных при университете,** что и происходило в декабре месяце."

Thanks!

Discussion

Mikhail Kropotov Apr 2, 2015:
Exactly; he's not talking about himself Sometimes it's best to just translate what is in the source, no more, no less.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Apr 2, 2015:
Whether "stayed on" or "was kept/reserved" does not really matter: Leontiev describes (in this particular part of the interview) the general procedure for forming academic/research staff at the time: instead of "distribution" into the "people's economy", the most promising graduates were "kept at the university/college" for further academic careers as "aspirants" (i.e. postgrad students working toward their "candidate of sciences" degree). I mean, he did not mean specifically himself. He equals himself to "aspirants" who were also unpaid "junior researchers".
Evgeny Artemov (X) Apr 2, 2015:
Susan, Russian Wiki says otherwise: поступил на факультет общественных наук МГУ, который окончил в 1923 либо 1924 году. Среди его учителей того времени: Г. И. Челпанов и Г. Г. Шпет. По окончании университета был оставлен при Психологическом институте для подготовки к профессорской деятельности, на это время пришлось смещение с поста директора основателя Института Г. И. Челпанова.

On the Psychology Institute:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Психологический_институт_имени...

Став в 1907 году профессором по кафедре философии в Московском университете, он учредил «Психологический семинарий», который называл «маленьким институтом». На базе семинария стало вестись преподавание психологии, а с 1909 года — экспериментальные исследования. Когда число обучающихся превысило возможности помещения, начался процесс создания самостоятельного института. Психологический институт, создан в 1912 и открыт в 1914 году проф. МУ Г.И. Челпанов.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 2, 2015:
Thanks Evgeny, but... I'm not sure about that. The English Wikipedia says "In 1921, he began his studies at the historical-philological Faculty of the University [MGU]. The historical-philological Faculty, at the time, included a Department of Philosophy at which G. I. Chelpanov was teaching psychology, and Leont'ev studied psychology with him. In 1924, Leont'ev graduated from what became the Faculty of Social Sciences." So it sounds like the Psych Dept/Institute was part of MGU. (Of course, the English may be wrong; it's just that it's SO much easier to understand than the Russian ! :-) ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksei_N._Leontiev
Evgeny Artemov (X) Apr 2, 2015:
I'd write this as: "I was titled 'supernumerary(?) junior research[work]er', that was something llike a postgrad student. They called so people that fell within the category of graduates they kept at the university {{upon graduation for continued postgrad studies and subsequent academic career at it}}, which {{decision to keep them on usually}} occurred in December {{i.e. 6 months before the graduation}}'

But, as I noted, Leontiev describes the general procedure ("оставление"), it did not apply to him, because he graduated from Moscow Universtity and was NOT "оставлен". He just explains "extranumeraries".
Evgeny Artemov (X) Apr 2, 2015:
I'd say, "assigned to" 1. Leontiev was оставлен NOT at the university, but at the Psychology Institute (which was part of the Academy of Sciences, NOT the university).

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Психологический_институт_имени...

The transcript Susan is translating seems to differ from the official version (as given in Wikipedia)

2. Leontiev studied and gradiated from Moscow Universtity, NOT the Pshychology Institute.

По окончании университета был оставлен при Психологическом институте для подготовки к профессорской деятельности, на это время пришлось смещение с поста директора основателя Института Г. И. Челпанова.

3. So neither the university, nor the Psychology could "keep" him, nor could he "stay on". It was possibly 1925 academic speak.
Mikhail Kropotov Apr 2, 2015:
No, of course he did not leave the university. Оставить университет and остаться при университете are complete opposites.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 2, 2015:
here's more of it... "Такой формальный акт был сделан, по крайней мере Челпанов меня проинформировал, что вот есть решение об оставлении меня при университете. Внештатный младший научный сотрудник — это значит «младший научный сотрудник, не получающий никакой зарплаты»."

The two answers so far demonstrate why I couldn't figure this out: one answerer says they left the university (graduated), the other says they stayed! Well, Leontiev is at the Institute of Psychology, which I guess is part of a university, although he doesn't say so.

Proposed translations

+6
3 mins
Selected

those the university decided to keep

I don't think this is a technical term

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 mins (2015-04-02 17:15:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or
The Retained Ones
(just kidding)
Peer comment(s):

agree x1ansheng (X) : Correct. Definitely not a technical term, perhaps colloquial slang?
6 mins
The soon-to-be-masters were offered a junior researcher position *within* the university which they could combine with pursuing their PhDs. It's not slang, but not a term either.
agree Natasha Liberman
22 mins
agree Anna Garkusha
27 mins
agree Tatiana Lammers
44 mins
neutral LilianNekipelov : Not exactly. What the university decided or not is not implied by the original statement.
1 hr
No, it's absolutely clear and you're wrong again. Compare оставшиеся при университете (active voice) vs. оставленные при университете (passive voice).
agree The Misha : Or maybe even wanted to keep. Never you mind what Lilian says..
4 hrs
agree cyhul
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, especially to Mikhail and Evgeny for helpful comments."
-1
8 mins

graduated from university

The sample text describes a situation where the person successfully "left the university" to obtain his first job, as a freelance junior (or entry-level) researcher.

Since this event happened in December, a common time for graduation when one's program of studies is completed earlier than others, this makes sense. Hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Mikhail Kropotov : As much as I'd like to, I cannot agree with your interpretation. Compare оставить университет (leave the university) with оставить кого-либо ПРИ университете (retain/keep someone at the university).
13 mins
After seeing the larger context provided, and considering your point, I can't argue with your position. Good call, sir.
disagree LilianNekipelov : No. It means those that stayed and continued academic work, and research.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
1 hr

who would work for the university, who would stay at the university and continue academic work

my options
Something went wrong...
-2
10 hrs

being treaated as someone who was aready expelled and deserted as a student by the academic institut

The decision to simply ignore a bad performing student is connected to the evaluations of academic achievments. This is why the phrase says one usually becomes such around deccember. That is, the end of each year. This is also supported by dictinoaries and my own feel from the sentence as a native russian speaker who has some feeling of the culture and vast familiarity with literature and its the simple explanation too...
Example sentence:

He was told that due to low academic achiements he is no longer considered as a student by the unversity even though this does not entail offical exp

Peer comment(s):

disagree Evgeny Artemov (X) : Nothing of the sort. The full text is at http://istina.msu.ru/media/publications/articles/dd8/955/557...
1 hr
disagree x1ansheng (X) : In addition, you don't hire or recruit someone who fails their training or education.
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
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