Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
That one not even the devil would tell!
English answer:
You don't say!
Added to glossary by
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
Nov 18, 2004 22:23
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
Benchmark Translations
Native in: Portuguese 
, English
Works in: Portuguese, English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, and 1 more.
That one not even the devil would tell!
English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
This is the (more or less) direct translation of a Portuguese expression. It is used when the speaker has been told something preposterous. Can anyone think of an equivalent expression in English? I have been thinking about it for half a day and come up with nothing satisfactory. Thanks.
Responses
Responses
-1
8 hrs
Montefiore
United States
United States
Works in field
United States
Experienced, knowledgeable, prompt
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Ukrainian to Russian, Russian, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
Devil only knows what you are telling me
This is how I woould translate it, probably, although I am not using a specific English idiom.
I don't insist, of course. It just seems that, somehow, the word "Devil" must be preserved:)
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Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 6 mins (2004-11-20 08:30:02 GMT)
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Given the context kindly provided by the asker, this is what actually might do just fine:
You don\'t say, you good old S.O.B.
(pardon the vernacular)
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Note added at 2 days 18 hrs 4 mins (2004-11-21 16:27:59 GMT)
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To Dusty: your inital response to my answer, in which you juxtapose the \"native ears\" with the non-native ears is what propelled this entire debate into a space where it should have never been in the first place; oftentimes we are unaware of our own role in the course of events. This is not to perpetuate the argument, but rather to learn from it.
I don't insist, of course. It just seems that, somehow, the word "Devil" must be preserved:)
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Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 6 mins (2004-11-20 08:30:02 GMT)
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Given the context kindly provided by the asker, this is what actually might do just fine:
You don\'t say, you good old S.O.B.
(pardon the vernacular)
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Note added at 2 days 18 hrs 4 mins (2004-11-21 16:27:59 GMT)
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To Dusty: your inital response to my answer, in which you juxtapose the \"native ears\" with the non-native ears is what propelled this entire debate into a space where it should have never been in the first place; oftentimes we are unaware of our own role in the course of events. This is not to perpetuate the argument, but rather to learn from it.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: Sorry, Monte, but for one thing I DON'T believe the 'Devil' metaphor works at all in English, and your suggested phrase sounds stilted and unnatural to my native ears :-) /// You'll have a Devil of a time trying :-)))
13 hrs
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Dusty, Devil only knows how hard it is to please your native ear:) No need to rub it in that yours are native, and mine are not, however, given the context, your version may be a tad too dramatic, dear:)
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| disagree |
Refugio
: "The Devil only knows" expresses perplexity, not incredulity.//Perhaps it would not be necessary to express negative reactions if people gave more thought to their answers.
1 day 11 hrs
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I am so glad you didn't hesitate to express your negative opinion - you do it with every chance you get; incidentally, are perplexity and incredulity that far apart?
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| agree |
NancyLynn
: I like You don't say! because that is a little dated, and it is beautifully understated, for an English speaker: you don't say! implies I think this guy is feeding me a line of b.s.
2 days 5 hrs
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Thank you, NancyLynn. Yes, "you don't say" would fit here nicely
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Choosing an answer was very difficult because so many where really good. After much debating, I feel that “You don’t say!” is the best one for my scene, even without the word ‘devil’. It has the same ‘flavour’ as the Pt expression - thanks Montefiore.
Thanks also to all the many people who tried to help.
Once again I apologise for not having had the forethought to provide a lot more information at the outset – I won’t do it again, I promise.
"
+3
9 mins
Mikhail Kropotov
Germany
Germany
Works in field
Germany
US-educated, precise & thorough
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, Russian
Related KudoZ points
:
8
You've got to be kidding (me)!
The meaning of this expression is roughly equal to the one you are talking about. Other details: 1. It is very common; 2. It is colloquial if not slang; and 2. Maybe it is not quite as strong as you want.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tehani
1 hr
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thank you!
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| neutral |
Tony M
: Sounds too American and modern to necessarily be suitable for Asker's context (country?)
1 day 9 hrs
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Perhaps it does. My answer came in before the added note.
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| agree |
Montefiore
: it's a milder version of what's being said
2 days 7 hrs
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As explained above in 2. (which should have been a 3.) Thanks!
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| agree |
Refugio
: As for modern, the verb "to kid" meaning "to treat like a child" goes back at least to the early nineteenth century, according to the Dictionary of Slang. Maybe in question form: "Are you kidding me?"
2 days 17 hrs
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Thank you. If I remember correctly, Americans often express feelings of disbelief using either the question form or the statement form.
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+1
15 mins
David Russi
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
United States
30+ years, stopped counting...
Native in: English , Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
it's a real fish story
May not be exactly what you are looking for, this usually implies that the story was greatly exaggerated (the fish the fisherman describes is always bigger than the one he/she really caught).
25 mins
That's a tall tale!
Definition of tall tale: an improbable (unusual or incredible or fanciful) story
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Note added at 27 mins (2004-11-18 22:51:10 GMT)
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More on tall tales:
tall tale -- An anecdotal exaggeration, a \"windie.\" The folk form is
common worldwide, although it flourished particularly in the American
nineteenth century, as settlers added inventions of their own humorous
design to the already daunting hazards of frontier life.
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Note added at 31 mins (2004-11-18 22:54:38 GMT)
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The \"American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms\" defines \"tall tale\" as:
tall tale
A fanciful or greatly exaggerated story, as in \"Some youngsters love tall tales about creatures from outer space coming to earth\". This idiom uses \'tall\' in the sense of \"exaggerated.\" [Mid-1800s]
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Note added at 27 mins (2004-11-18 22:51:10 GMT)
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More on tall tales:
tall tale -- An anecdotal exaggeration, a \"windie.\" The folk form is
common worldwide, although it flourished particularly in the American
nineteenth century, as settlers added inventions of their own humorous
design to the already daunting hazards of frontier life.
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Note added at 31 mins (2004-11-18 22:54:38 GMT)
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The \"American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms\" defines \"tall tale\" as:
tall tale
A fanciful or greatly exaggerated story, as in \"Some youngsters love tall tales about creatures from outer space coming to earth\". This idiom uses \'tall\' in the sense of \"exaggerated.\" [Mid-1800s]
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Montefiore
: this is a good one
8 hrs
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Thanks! It's used all the time here in the U.S.
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| disagree |
Tony M
: Meaning OK, but not very idiomatic to my native ears; sounds quaint and old-fashioned, mainly because 'tale' is a very dated word // Yes, I'm BE; not question of 'authority' simply observation! // Tall tale on its own is OK; just the expression sounds odd
22 hrs
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Interesting. It's certainly idiomatic to MY native U.S. ears. Perhaps you're from another English-speaking country. Nothing quaint about this. I hear it all the time. And who has the authority to say whether or not a word is 'dated'?
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+1
41 mins
Bull shit! Horse shit!
American slang you hear everywhere everyday. Expression used is for belittling and pejorative, even offensive. I am not sure whether you're looking for this degree of denial as it is quite strong. But being used for so often, under certain context it may not be so bad any more.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
NancyLynn
: horse hockey! ;-) depending on the rest of the conversation, and the characters in question, this might be the shortest route to the best answer
2 days 13 hrs
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Thank you Nancy!
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+5
1 hr
Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Germany
Native in English
&
English
Specializes in field
Germany
Quality Translations since 1986
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
pull the other one (o. leg), (it's got bells on it)
if you think someone is trying to fool you into believing something...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Montefiore
: this is hilarious, I much prefer this version! I also find it remarkable that you chose to eschew the non-native postive comments while responding to Dusty's; no native bias here, to be sure:)
7 hrs
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The added context (1922) was what did it, nothing else. BTW, most of the time I don't reply, especially to agrees.
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| agree |
Aisha Maniar
: I like both your answers!
9 hrs
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| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, this is definitely the winner in my book! "You don't expect me to believe that, do you?" // Then this is PERFECT, as I'm sure it was in use long ago, and is ideal for conversation between 2 men...
21 hrs
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Thanks, Dusty, but now we gotta go back through the time warp to 1922
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| agree |
NancyLynn
2 days 12 hrs
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| agree |
Refugio
2 days 15 hrs
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-1
1 hr
Neil Phillipson
Native in English
&
English
Quality,Legibility,ComprehensibilityFast
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, English, English to Spanish, and 1 more.
A shaggy dog story
A tall story is nice, meaning something fabricated or made, the kind of story a friend might tell another as a joke. Even if a story were told in the company of friends, disbelief could be expressed by saying, "That's a shaggy dog story or that's a tall story!".
Of course, if we wanted to deride our own language and talk in expletives, we might say, "Bullshit, horseshit, b*llocks" and any other manner of swearing I usually hear in the pub on a Friday night. That's not to say I don't mind it, just that there are alternatives depending on the context...
I think 'a shaggy dog story' suits this expression nicely. I hope it helps,
Neil.
Of course, if we wanted to deride our own language and talk in expletives, we might say, "Bullshit, horseshit, b*llocks" and any other manner of swearing I usually hear in the pub on a Friday night. That's not to say I don't mind it, just that there are alternatives depending on the context...
I think 'a shaggy dog story' suits this expression nicely. I hope it helps,
Neil.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Aisha Maniar
: this is also a possibility
9 hrs
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Thanks, Aisha
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| disagree |
Tony M
: Sorry Neil, but I think 'shaggy dog' means specifically a long-winded story that has a weak or unfunny ending...
1 day 8 hrs
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| disagree |
Refugio
: Dusty is right on the definition of shaggy dog story. "Not that shaggy!"
2 days 15 hrs
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+3
1 hr
Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Germany
Native in English
&
English
Specializes in field
Germany
Quality Translations since 1986
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
a cock-and-bull story
Merriam-Webster says: an incredible story told as true
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
sarahl (X)
1 hr
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| agree |
Giulia Barontini
1 hr
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| agree |
Aisha Maniar
: :-)
9 hrs
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| neutral |
Tony M
: Fair enough, but difficult to work into a suitable ejaculation
20 hrs
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+1
1 day 10 hrs
That's devilishly hard to swallow, old chap!
Well, if you're looking for an old-fashioned expression that includes the Devil, try this! It just could be appropriate, particularly if these were English chaps talking (though I doubt they are!)
What you don't say is whether the sense is "Do you really expect me to believe that?" or "I don't believe you, you're talking rubbish" --- I think it will make quite a difference to what expression works. However, I feel very strongly that Cilian's "pull the other one!" is exactly in the right register for you here, and has a sufficiently dated air to work for 1922 as well (my Dad, from that era, used it a lot!)
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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs 13 mins (2004-11-20 09:37:02 GMT)
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I appreciate your input Monte, though I don\'t know why you sound quite so \'bristly\' about it.
I certainly made no claim to be authoritative; indeed, I hope the tone of my suggestion was very \'throw-away\', intended as \'just another idea into the melting pot\' --- in this case, I was trying to work in the \'Devil\' bit as Asker had requested, and I acknowledge that back in 1922, the word \'Devil\' would have been more likely to crop up than today (odd, that, isn\'t it?) Indeed, my own suggestion is nothing more than \"another version\" --- did anyone ever say the contrary? Certainly not me!
As for interpreting the Portuguese, of course I know nothing (not that Asker has given us the original language text anyway!) --- so I am relying entirely (as I presume many other answerers are) on Asker\'s own explanation of the text, which I believe I have interpreted correctly --- whilst acknowledging at least 2 of the possible nuances of meaning that I can spot.
You are of course entirely entitled to hold your own view, but to do so, you don\'t need to be quite so hard on poor, harmless old Dusty -- \'else I\'ll cry :-)))
What you don't say is whether the sense is "Do you really expect me to believe that?" or "I don't believe you, you're talking rubbish" --- I think it will make quite a difference to what expression works. However, I feel very strongly that Cilian's "pull the other one!" is exactly in the right register for you here, and has a sufficiently dated air to work for 1922 as well (my Dad, from that era, used it a lot!)
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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs 13 mins (2004-11-20 09:37:02 GMT)
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I appreciate your input Monte, though I don\'t know why you sound quite so \'bristly\' about it.
I certainly made no claim to be authoritative; indeed, I hope the tone of my suggestion was very \'throw-away\', intended as \'just another idea into the melting pot\' --- in this case, I was trying to work in the \'Devil\' bit as Asker had requested, and I acknowledge that back in 1922, the word \'Devil\' would have been more likely to crop up than today (odd, that, isn\'t it?) Indeed, my own suggestion is nothing more than \"another version\" --- did anyone ever say the contrary? Certainly not me!
As for interpreting the Portuguese, of course I know nothing (not that Asker has given us the original language text anyway!) --- so I am relying entirely (as I presume many other answerers are) on Asker\'s own explanation of the text, which I believe I have interpreted correctly --- whilst acknowledging at least 2 of the possible nuances of meaning that I can spot.
You are of course entirely entitled to hold your own view, but to do so, you don\'t need to be quite so hard on poor, harmless old Dusty -- \'else I\'ll cry :-)))
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Montefiore
: that's not exactly what's being said here; and, Dusty, although you are a native English speaker, you are not a native Portuguese speaker, so yours is just another version, and not an authoritative one; in my view, it is not close enough to the original
12 mins
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Thanks, Monte! Please see my added note above for a longer response...
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| agree |
Refugio
: In the US nowadays we would probably just say, "Yeah, right!"
9 hrs
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| agree |
NancyLynn
: yeah, right! is also commonly heard today, but I love your devilishly well constructed phrase, which seems perfect for the period
1 day 4 hrs
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1 day 19 hrs
I'll believe that when pigs fly!
Another colloquial expression.
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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 5 mins (2004-11-20 18:28:28 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)
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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 11 mins (2004-11-20 18:34:42 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)
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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 5 mins (2004-11-20 18:28:28 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)
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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 11 mins (2004-11-20 18:34:42 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Montefiore
: there are many colloquial expressions, but the fact that they are colloguial doesn't yet qualify them as suitable for the given context
12 hrs
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Is this another common expression that you haven't yet heard?
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| agree |
NancyLynn
: d'you think I was born y.? I wasn't born y,. you know
18 hrs
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Thanks, Nancy
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4 hrs
that's the tallest story fed (to humans/someone)
It sounds like your portugese expression is a very strong and exaggerated one, so I would suggest an exaggerated version of "a tall story".
I place the qualifier in the last sentence because the biggest trick, or illusion, or the tallest story fed to the human is the one of ancestry and pedigree.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/11/24/stories/2002112...
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Note added at 4 hrs 43 mins (2004-11-19 03:07:22 GMT)
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Also...
The Tallest Tale told this month, has to be Elizabeth Kate\'s...
http://callahans.50megs.com/barrags/0005rag.html
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Note added at 2 days 4 hrs 56 mins (2004-11-21 03:19:44 GMT)
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In reply to Ruth\'s comment:
1) When I replied, there was no note specifying contradiction between two parties, banking, anarchy, or anything/anybody else, and 2) I can\'t vouch for the writer\'s language background, but I am a native speaker of English, and I don\'t see anything wrong with \"feeding sb lies/tales\" as a phrase. I quite like it.
I place the qualifier in the last sentence because the biggest trick, or illusion, or the tallest story fed to the human is the one of ancestry and pedigree.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/11/24/stories/2002112...
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Note added at 4 hrs 43 mins (2004-11-19 03:07:22 GMT)
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Also...
The Tallest Tale told this month, has to be Elizabeth Kate\'s...
http://callahans.50megs.com/barrags/0005rag.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 4 hrs 56 mins (2004-11-21 03:19:44 GMT)
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In reply to Ruth\'s comment:
1) When I replied, there was no note specifying contradiction between two parties, banking, anarchy, or anything/anybody else, and 2) I can\'t vouch for the writer\'s language background, but I am a native speaker of English, and I don\'t see anything wrong with \"feeding sb lies/tales\" as a phrase. I quite like it.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Montefiore
4 hrs
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:-) thanks
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| disagree |
Refugio
: To say that there is no contradiction between banking and anarchy is not exactly "a tall story", which would mean an exaggeration, and "fed (to the human)" is clearly not written by a native English speaker.
1 day 15 hrs
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+3
2 days 14 hrs
The Devil, you say!
Having read all the offerings, and having the advantage of stepping in late ;-) this expression occurred to me. It's old, it sticks to the original <devil> expression, and just might work for the asker...
The difficulty with the Eng mono section is this: the asker deliberately did not go for pt-eng in order to avoid non-idiomatic expressions from non-native Eng speakers.
I do not wish to engage in a debate on netiquette or pc behaviour: the scope of this linguistic research, by its very nature, transcends pc. The *important* thing is for the translation to be natural. The ultimate goal is to present an accurate, excellent translation.
Sometimes these waters are deeper than they first appear. I thank everyone who takes the time to help others; but please be sure to stick to linguistic comments, not personal ones, and keep in mind that this is a professional venue, and the asker has a professional interest vested in the question. Personal feelings cannot be taken into consideration.
Now I am going to agree with Dusty and Cilian, as both their answers are idiomatic and could potentially assist the asker in making her selection for the text she is translating. I hope she is able to untangle it all!
The difficulty with the Eng mono section is this: the asker deliberately did not go for pt-eng in order to avoid non-idiomatic expressions from non-native Eng speakers.
I do not wish to engage in a debate on netiquette or pc behaviour: the scope of this linguistic research, by its very nature, transcends pc. The *important* thing is for the translation to be natural. The ultimate goal is to present an accurate, excellent translation.
Sometimes these waters are deeper than they first appear. I thank everyone who takes the time to help others; but please be sure to stick to linguistic comments, not personal ones, and keep in mind that this is a professional venue, and the asker has a professional interest vested in the question. Personal feelings cannot be taken into consideration.
Now I am going to agree with Dusty and Cilian, as both their answers are idiomatic and could potentially assist the asker in making her selection for the text she is translating. I hope she is able to untangle it all!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Refugio
: This is a good one, but isn't the comma usually omitted?
3 hrs
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you're right!
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| agree |
Montefiore
: couldn't agree more with everything you say, and the translation version choices are made according to the individual preferences of the Asker; after all, people forget that the Asker is the one who is the "judge" here, and our task is to help him/her
3 hrs
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exactly! thanks
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| agree |
Tony M
: Brilliantly said, Nancy! I agree with your suggestion, and especially, with your comments! A nice, warm, glowing feeling just came all over me --- and it's not even Christmas yet :-)
22 hrs
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+2
2 days 11 hrs
chica nueva
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
http://youtube/iraVWQu3Zf8
Native in: English (Variants: New Zealand, British)
Works in: Chinese to English
Some ideas (which may or may not be suitable for 1922)
Well, I never. Auld Nick himself wouldn't have thought of it.
Well, I'll be danged. That beats them all.
The Devil take it. That tops the lot.
Well, bless me. Trickier than Auld Nick.
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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 31 mins (2004-11-22 03:55:02 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.
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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 34 mins (2004-11-22 03:58:00 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.
Well, I'll be danged. That beats them all.
The Devil take it. That tops the lot.
Well, bless me. Trickier than Auld Nick.
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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 31 mins (2004-11-22 03:55:02 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.
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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 34 mins (2004-11-22 03:58:00 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Montefiore
: These are pretty darn good, I like them all
6 hrs
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| agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
16 hrs
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Discussion
The Pt original is "Essa mem ao diabo a ouviram" which literally would be something like, "That one hasn't been heard even from the devil"
I didn't put the Pt because I asked this question in the English board seeing I wanted an English expression rather then a translation.
Thanks again for all the answers - whichever I end up choosing, I have learned a lot especially about "tall tale" and "pull the other one" (I didn't know they'd been around for that long).
[Apologies to all of you who may think, quite rightly, that I should have provided all this info yesterday]
first, many thanks to all contributions so far;
second, this book was published in 1922 and although the subject itself is completely independent of place and time, perhaps I should have specified that I was looking for something not too modern, so to speak.
It would be nice to preserve the word 'devil' but not at all essential. What I am looking for is some expression with an equivalent 'flavour'.