| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Consider the consequences of AI before you start a career in translation Thread poster: Gerard de Noord
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Gerard de Noord 
France
Local time: 21:54
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
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Don’t plan to study European languages to become a commercial translator. By the time you’ve finished, AI will have taken over. The same goes for interpreters: only top summits and peace negotiations will still require human translation.
Study European languages for other reasons but not to make a living as a commercial translator.
I’ve been in the business for more than twenty years, so just take my word for it.
Cheers,
Gerard
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 23:54
English to Arabic
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| Honest talk, but -alas- late | Mar 30, 2022 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
Don’t plan to study European languages to become a commercial translator. By the time you’ve finished, AI will have taken over. The same goes for interpreters: only top summits and peace negotiations will still require human translation.
Study European languages for other reasons but not to make a living as a commercial translator.
I’ve been in the business for more than twenty years, so just take my word for it.
Cheers,
Gerard
Still, better late than never.
And, if I may introduce an alteration: "Don’t plan to study languages (any and all) to become a paid translator. By the time you’re duly settled to start translating at expert level, AI will have taken over."
| | | | | Luddite syndrome | Mar 30, 2022 |
I see that the Luddite syndrome has been getting worse recently (is that a seasonal thing?) on proz.com. MT still often produces rubbish, and how exactly you think it's going to change, if it hasn't in the years it's been around? I strongly believe language is still an extremely complicated and, more importantly, evolving phenomenon that would always require human participation. The share of MT-based (editing) work will surely increase, but certain areas require and will continue to require huma... See more I see that the Luddite syndrome has been getting worse recently (is that a seasonal thing?) on proz.com. MT still often produces rubbish, and how exactly you think it's going to change, if it hasn't in the years it's been around? I strongly believe language is still an extremely complicated and, more importantly, evolving phenomenon that would always require human participation. The share of MT-based (editing) work will surely increase, but certain areas require and will continue to require human tranlators in the future. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:54
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
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| Depressing, but probably true in the long run | Mar 30, 2022 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
Don’t plan to study European languages to become a commercial translator. By the time you’ve finished, AI will have taken over. The same goes for interpreters: only top summits and peace negotiations will still require human translation.
Study European languages for other reasons but not to make a living as a commercial translator.
I’ve been in the business for more than twenty years, so just take my word for it.
Cheers,
Gerard
Your post is very relevant to me, since I'm 46 years old and so am planning to be doing this for quite a while still. I have been following the whole AI/MT thing very closely for years, and am hoping it will take a long time before it make us redundant. I've also been trying to figure out a Plan B, in case it all falls apart sooner than I had hoped. Stuff like: learn coding, or some other skill I expect to last longer. I'd be curious to hear about other people's Plan B's...
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Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
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... that AI plateaued more than a decade ago, chronically unable to get past perhaps a 6 or 7 out of 10 level in translation competence, completeness, consistency and fluency. Examples abound everywhere.
Yes, DeepL, I'm looking at you and all your little brothers.
Good if you're a mediocre translator, say a 5, willing to "elevate" yourself to a 7. Pretty much useless if you're an 8 or 9.
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Michael Beijer wrote:
Your post is very relevant to me, since I'm 46 years old and so am planning to be doing this for quite a while still. I have been following the whole AI/MT thing very closely for years, and am hoping it will take a long time before it make us redundant. I've also been trying to figure out a Plan B, in case it all falls apart sooner than I had hoped. Stuff like: learn coding, or some other skill I expect to last longer. I'd be curious to hear about other people's Plan B's...
I'm currently studying for an MSc in renewable energy and sustainability. If it comes to the point where translation is no longer viable I could see myself working in that field in some form.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 23:54
English to Arabic
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Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:
Luddite syndrome
I see that the Luddite syndrome has been getting worse recently (is that a seasonal thing?) on proz.com. MT still often produces rubbish, and how exactly you think it's going to change, if it hasn't in the years it's been around? I strongly believe language is still an extremely complicated and, more importantly, evolving phenomenon that would always require human participation. The share of MT-based (editing) work will surely increase, but certain areas require and will continue to require human tranlators in the future.
Luddites, indeed, are those who don't have the faintest idea about algorithms and the compound reasoning build-up thereof.
Michael Beijer wrote:
I have been following the whole AI/MT thing very closely for years, and am hoping it will take a long time before it make us redundant.
It depends on how good the inputs are!
If they keep using inputs from peanut-paid newbies, they will go no farther than they are now.
If they reverse back to well-paid experts, it's a matter of very few years.
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 21:54
German to Swedish
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DeepL is often disconcertingly excellent. The result still isn't usable unmodified, but it's better than what a bad translator generates, and surprisingly readable.
I think the low end market (at least in the big languages) will largely disappear within 5-10 years, and human translators will be used for high-end jobs and MTPE. "Good enough" machine translation won't do well in copywriting, financials, medicine, legal, sworn translation and other high-stakes segments. Most beginners... See more DeepL is often disconcertingly excellent. The result still isn't usable unmodified, but it's better than what a bad translator generates, and surprisingly readable.
I think the low end market (at least in the big languages) will largely disappear within 5-10 years, and human translators will be used for high-end jobs and MTPE. "Good enough" machine translation won't do well in copywriting, financials, medicine, legal, sworn translation and other high-stakes segments. Most beginners aren't very good at any of that. So it will become harder to start out, and it's already difficult. ▲ Collapse
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Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 21:54
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
I'm retiring in a few years, who's going to fill the huuuuge hole I'll leave in the Italian market? Not the ones whose masterpieces I happen to proofread every once in a while.
Fresh blood is needed. The torch must be passed on. All those patents and manuals and agreements aren't going to translate themselves.
Nor is anybody in their right mind trusting AI with a legally binding doc.
| | | | | There is a Plan B indeed... | Mar 30, 2022 |
Let's keep calm and get serious: DeepL is a translation aid, not a professional tool.
DeepL is only an aid for translators. But it's squarely useless when it comes to translate technical documents which need a high level of proficiency into your mother tongue, especially within specific areas of expertise, such as medical, biology, pharmacy, legal, finance, accounting and the like.
Even in those high technical fields, DeepL would provide you a very attractive and seduct... See more Let's keep calm and get serious: DeepL is a translation aid, not a professional tool.
DeepL is only an aid for translators. But it's squarely useless when it comes to translate technical documents which need a high level of proficiency into your mother tongue, especially within specific areas of expertise, such as medical, biology, pharmacy, legal, finance, accounting and the like.
Even in those high technical fields, DeepL would provide you a very attractive and seductive (maybe convincing as well...) version of the document into your native language, but which leaves to be desired technically speaking...
For instance, when you download from DeepL, say, a terms & conditions document, the rendering you only get - within a few seconds I concede - looks truly awful, unusable and incomprehensible for a lawyer, what I am. In short, you get a dog's breakfast, a load of rubbish. Not more.
Merely use DeepL and AI translation machine tools as an aid for translation, not as a reliable professional tool, what is utterly not in any case.
Machine translation simply is - and must stay - an aid for translators in order to help them pre-translate and rework the files they are entrusted with into their mother tongue. In any rate it cannot be a pretext for rogue translation agencies to pull their rates downwards and therefore impoverish hundreds of proficient and valuable translators.
That being said, there is a Plan B indeed to counteract the desastrous impact AI (that some call "Artificial Imbecility") has been causing for years to the translation industry and to the livelyhood of hundreds of translators over the world: consistently boycott all MTPE assignments coming by tons from unscrupulous agencies that offer shameful rates to their translators on a daily basis.
Time has come to wage war, not against AI in itself, but against those thuggish agencies which enrich themself at vulnerable translators' expense.
We, all together, have the power to wipe those rogue agencies out of the translation industry.
We, all together, have the power to make a decent living from our profession that we have learnt and fought for, that we still are proud of and that we practice with passion.
We, all together, have the power to make sure the "Artificial Imbecility" won't never prevail against human translation and will stay whatsoever what it will keep being for the years to come: a tool. Nothing more...
[Modifié le 2022-03-31 06:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Luddites also thought theit plan would work... | Mar 31, 2022 |
Don't overestimate yourself. Anything you turn down can and will be done by someone else. If you think the rate is too low for PEMT or you have better offers for full-time work and regular earnings (put aside whatever you would consider as 'decent' or 'not decent', too subjective), that's one thing. But this has nothing to do with and won't change anything in the fact that PEMT-based jobs will be dominating for certain texts. Most of the stuff translated as PEMT now is single-use pieces of infor... See more Don't overestimate yourself. Anything you turn down can and will be done by someone else. If you think the rate is too low for PEMT or you have better offers for full-time work and regular earnings (put aside whatever you would consider as 'decent' or 'not decent', too subjective), that's one thing. But this has nothing to do with and won't change anything in the fact that PEMT-based jobs will be dominating for certain texts. Most of the stuff translated as PEMT now is single-use pieces of information, often of mediocre quality, not worth the effort of classic full-scale translation,
Many customers would not be willing to pay an expensive translator for a simple document instead of using MT with good post-editing which would cost 3-4 times less. At the same time, for the kind of texts I refer to above, human translation quality won't be proportionately higher. You wouldn't go to a store and pay 100 euros for a bottle of wine that would only 30% better than a bottle costing 25 euros. Or somebody would, but most customers' choice is obvious.
In the future the bulk of the translation workload for many types of documents will be formed by PEMT editing jobs and direct/indirect use of MT. By denying it, for whatever reason, you will be outplacing youself of a significant part of the market. I'm heartily glad for translators working in certain niches and having secure long-term rich customers willing to pay high rates for 'classic' translations, but unfortunately many colleagues aren't and won't be that lucky. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sound advice | Mar 31, 2022 |
I concur with Gerard and Sadek as regards translation (interpretation is not my field).
Affected are not only European languages, though, but also exotic ones. My source language is Japanese and the dynamics driving MT application are the same as elsewhere.
Based on my experience,
- more translation jobs than ever before are offered pre-translated, i.e., are MTPE jobs;
- translation rates for MTPE are at best about 50% of HT;
- MT tends to be applied indiscr... See more I concur with Gerard and Sadek as regards translation (interpretation is not my field).
Affected are not only European languages, though, but also exotic ones. My source language is Japanese and the dynamics driving MT application are the same as elsewhere.
Based on my experience,
- more translation jobs than ever before are offered pre-translated, i.e., are MTPE jobs;
- translation rates for MTPE are at best about 50% of HT;
- MT tends to be applied indiscriminately to all types of materials from trivial to expert-level. Agencies select translators according to specialization, though.
After 20 years in translation I can afford to refuse MTPE, but if I were just a few years into the profession I wouldn’t have this option.
Having said that, MT is essentially a good thing, because it excels at some tasks that are horrifying drudgery to do “by hand.” And pre-translation can be immensely helpful also with complex source materials. In the right hands and properly used MT is a wonderful tool which I wouldn’t want to miss.
I don’t expect translation as a field of work to suddenly disappear but I believe that within a few years practically all translation jobs (IMHO copy is not really translation) will be MTPE jobs, simply because of the enormous cost reduction available at the agency level. And, no, the oft-cited “expert exemption” doesn’t cut it. Agencies will still make sure that they pick the right person for a given job. But most probably it will be an MTPE assignment.
Translation rates are low already and the bottom is not in sight just yet. I can’t begin to imagine how someone who five years hence starts as a translator can earn a living income from MTPE jobs.
My ideas for Plan B: Before starting in translation, get a degree in a field other than translation that gives you expert knowledge (credibility as a translator) AND can potentially feed you when the going gets tough (my personal choice would be solicitor).
If you are already way into translation and it’s too late for a drastic change, plan your finances carefully, reduce overhead, save for a rainy day, and dig in your heels.
[Edited at 2022-03-31 06:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Yes, and ... | Mar 31, 2022 |
Andreas Baranowski wrote:
My ideas for Plan B: Before starting in translation, get a degree in a field other than translation that gives you expert knowledge (credibility as a translator) AND can potentially feed you when the going gets tough (my personal choice would be solicitor).
If you are already way into translation and it’s too late for a drastic change, plan your finances carefully, reduce overhead, save for a rainy day, and dig in your heels.
[Edited at 2022-03-31 06:02 GMT]
... plan your CPD with an eye to developing skills that will be useful in the wider world. As translators we have lots of transferrable skills, but will an interviewer be impressed by someone who has basically sat at home churning out words for 20 years? It makes sense to give some thought to developing your employability in general - as Gerard says, you may find you don't want to translate for your whole career in any case.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 15:54
Japanese to English
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| Consequences of AI | Mar 31, 2022 |
I recently saw a Google translation of a passage of technical Japanese. The results were astonishing. Good thing I am preparing for another career. Eventually clients will bypass agencies and just Google a text.
| | | | | It all depends on the quality of the source text | Mar 31, 2022 |
Joakim Braun wrote:
DeepL is often disconcertingly excellent. The result still isn't usable unmodified, but it's better than what a bad translator generates, and surprisingly readable.
I'm translating technical documents (mostly manuals) with parts list, captions and many other isolated words on a daily basis. It often strikes me in what a hurry these fancy looking documents were written.
Each and every segment is machine translated by 5 publicly available engines. These produce a lot of crap too.
And then there is this total lack of terminological consistency.
So ... although prices are under pressure, we translators are still very much needed.
Luckily, there are still many clients that agree on this.
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