| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Is making random answers in many pairs acceptable, or KudoZ spam? Thread poster: Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 17:11
Italian to English
In memoriam | Automating Kudoz | Apr 20, 2011 |
philgoddard wrote:
I used to think well, he provides some harmless amusement, and he does have an impressive (if very sketchy) knowledge of many languages.
But then, in an unguarded moment, he admitted that he gets his answers from Google Translate! So he just sits there all day feeding questions into Google Translate and entering the answers into KudoZ, even if they make no sense. It seems like an exercise in total fuitility to me, and he obviously has masochistic tendencies because he gets more disagrees than anyone else on this site.
Couldn't somebody write a program to do that for him? Or perhaps it could be added to Kudoz as a feature.
G.
| | | | | From the old Kudoz Rules, fwiw | Apr 20, 2011 |
The old kinder and gentler Kudoz Rules included a number of helpful hints for guiding people towards good Kudoz etiquette. Here's one of them
4.5 - Avoid answering in language pairs in which you are not capable, and in fields in which you are not knowledgeable.
Perhaps it could be reinstated, even as an answerer-friendly guideline?
| | | | Cetacea
Switzerland
Local time: 17:11
English to German
+ ...
| What good would it do? | Apr 20, 2011 |
writeaway wrote:
4.5 - Avoid answering in language pairs in which you are not capable, and in fields in which you are not knowledgeable.
Perhaps it could be reinstated, even as an answerer-friendly guideline?
If other users are not allowed to let such an answerer know that he/she is either not capable or not knowledgeable or both, what good would such a guideline do?
Besides, I fully agree with Evonymus, Yasutomo and IPtranslate. I once made such a report about a pretty abusive harrasser and was told "appropriate action" had been taken, but when I asked what kind of measure that involved in general, the staff member in question very kindly let me know that this sort of information was not given to site users. Translation: None of your business. Just one more reason why I'm not a paying member anymore...
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4.5 - Avoid answering in language pairs in which you are not capable, and in fields in which you are not knowledgeable.
Perhaps it could be reinstated
Yes, nice! ... but that would be in contradiction to "discouragement of use of the site will not be tolerated" - editor of the rule would be banned for five lives and the discouraged users would receive 10,000 KudoZ points in random pairs as compensation for the harm to their dignity.
even as an answerer-friendly guideline?
It's a question if these "machiners" would care about quidelines (not rules), and how enforceable would that be.
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| Actions taken by site staff or moderators are not discussed with third parties | Apr 20, 2011 |
Hello MariyaN,
MariyaN wrote:
I have a question.
I few months ago I received an e-mail message via ProZ.com from one of the members after that person disagreed with my answer in KudoZ. That message was nothing but harassing and attacking; I reported it to site staff, was notified that "appropriate action was taken", and that was it. That person is still here and still says whatever he wants when appearing in KudoZ; moreover, in that extremely inappropriate, rude and offensive manner he addresses not only me, but almost all translators who usually take part in discussions in that pair. That person has already made several direct offensive remarks in other discussions at other translators before he sent that e-mail to me. According to the rules, that member should have already been issued a red card and be terminated without the right for readmission - however, he is still here and behaves himself like he is the only one able to make translations in this particular pair (having, by the way, produced very few answers by himself).
So, my question is: what is the actual limit at which a member is considered to be violating the rules?
Site Rules put it pretty clear, as for me; but if neither random, spam-like, unhelpful MT for KudoZ (as in case Tomas brought to this discussion), nor direct harassing remarks (as it was in my case) are not considered serious enough by site staff, then what is?
Please note that, in general, "appropriate action was taken" does not mean that no action was taken, but that actions based on site rules were taken. If site staff or moderators confirm no rule is being violated, and so no action is required, this will be communicated to the member making the report. However, if rules are clearly being violated, they will take action, but these actions will not be discussed with third parties (i.e. with the member reporting the rule violation).
Also, have in mind that "taking action" does not always mean restricting members' access to a given feature. Depending on the case, a member may be warned, or blocked temporarily or permanently.
If the member you are referring to keeps violating site rules, please report this to moderators or site staff so they can take further action.
Lucía
| | | | | Support staff works hard to keep the positive, results-oriented atmosphere in all site areas | Apr 20, 2011 |
IPtranslate wrote:
Yes, and as to reporting to support; that is like "reporting to Khadaffi that you would like Khadaffi to do a better job"...pardon the analogy, but that is what it is...
[Edited at 2011-04-20 08:21 GMT]
I would say your statement, IPtranslate, is not fair. Support staff --and moderators-- work very hard to maintain the positive, results-oriented atmosphere of KudoZ, forums and other site areas.
Site staff reply to every report of rule violation they receive, evaluating each case in detail, and taking action according to site rules.
I suggest you give it a try at least once. If you notice rules are being violated in any site area, I invite you to submit a support request and evaluate support staff response from there on, http://www.proz.com/support
Lucía
| | | | | I quite disagree | Apr 20, 2011 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: IPtranslate wrote:
Yes, and as to reporting to support; that is like "reporting to Khadaffi that you would like Khadaffi to do a better job"...pardon the analogy, but that is what it is...
[Edited at 2011-04-20 08:21 GMT] I would say your statement, IPtranslate, is not fair. Support staff --and moderators-- work very hard to maintain the positive, results-oriented atmosphere of KudoZ, forums and other site areas. Site staff reply to every report of rule violation they receive, evaluating each case in detail, and taking action according to site rules. I suggest you give it a try at least once. If you notice rules are being violated in any site area, I invite you to submit a support request and evaluate support staff response from there on, http://www.proz.com/support Lucía
I'm sorry, Lucia, but I must disagree with you, and I support what IPtranslate wrote. Maybe his/her analogy may not be a funny one, but I strongly feel that moderators and support/site staffs are not working very hard. Maybe they are working very hard and doing their best to maintain the integrity of the site, but if so, how come there are people who feel that appropriate actions are not/have not been taken? I believe you are following this thread, and including myself, there are at least five people who are NOT satisfied with the actions taken by site staffs and/or moderators. They've all submitted support ticket(s) and reported the issue to Proz, and they're all saying that the troublemakers are granted better protection than fair users despite of their intolerable behaviors and comments.
I would like to hear your opinion regarding this issue.
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| "Taking action" and "discussing action" are two different things | Apr 20, 2011 |
Dear Yasutomo,
Not communicating actions taken to third parties doesn't mean no actions are taken.
Now, going back to the original question, KudoZ is a term help network and everyone is invited to receive and give help. Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer is correct --or helpful-- or not. This is why participants are provided with the peer agreement option to show their agreement or disagreement with a proposed... See more Dear Yasutomo,
Not communicating actions taken to third parties doesn't mean no actions are taken.
Now, going back to the original question, KudoZ is a term help network and everyone is invited to receive and give help. Neither site staff, nor moderators have the linguistic authority to determine whether an answer is correct --or helpful-- or not. This is why participants are provided with the peer agreement option to show their agreement or disagreement with a proposed term.
Site rules are clear. If anyone would like to discuss a specific case, please do so via the support system. Thanks.
Lucía ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thanks, Tomas | Apr 20, 2011 |
Great link, and now I feel a bit better.
| | | | IPtranslate (X)
Brazil
English to Dutch
+ ...
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: I suggest you give it a try at least once. If you notice rules are being violated in any site area, I invite you to submit a support request and evaluate support staff response from there on, http://www.proz.com/support Lucía
I have, rest assured, I have (in a previous Proz-life)...and I read forums, although I tend to respond less and less, mostly in view of either lack of action by moderators or action that is at least very dubious.....Why do you think that I have become almost cynical?
Moderating is more than desperately trying to be politically correct; and definitely more than "minding your own shop", hence the (perhaps not 100% adequate) analogy I made.
"Think positive" and "stay upbeat" doesn't always work....sometimes you have to take a stand and speak out....
[Edited at 2011-04-20 12:41 GMT]
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IPtranslate wrote:
I have, rest assured, I have (in a previous Proz-life)...and I read forums, although I tend to respond less and less, mostly in view of either lack of action by moderators or action that is at least very dubious.....Why do you think that I have become almost cynical?
Moderating is more than desperately trying to be politically correct; and definitely more than "minding your own shop", hence the (perhaps not 100% adequate) analogy I made.
"Think positive" and "stay upbeat" doesn't always work....sometimes you have to take a stand and speak out....
[Edited at 2011-04-20 12:41 GMT]
I am not sure if I should even speak for the moderators, in light of the staff’s stance towards these rules. At the risk of getting some moderators into trouble, I’d say moderators do seem to still care, or at least some of them.
Whether we can think positive or not and whether KudoZ can function smoothly as a term help network partly depend on whether we have the right atmosphere here, and some of these rules are, IMHO, detrimental to the functioning of KudoZ. If they were to be strictly enforced I’d dare to say that probably half of the users (and probably the more helpful half) would be kicked off the site in no time.
[Edited at 2011-04-20 13:25 GMT]
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texjax DDS PhD
Local time: 11:11
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
| If someone would like to start a petition... | Apr 20, 2011 |
Giles Watson wrote: philgoddard wrote:
I used to think well, he provides some harmless amusement, and he does have an impressive (if very sketchy) knowledge of many languages.
But then, in an unguarded moment, he admitted that he gets his answers from Google Translate! So he just sits there all day feeding questions into Google Translate and entering the answers into KudoZ, even if they make no sense. It seems like an exercise in total fuitility to me, and he obviously has masochistic tendencies because he gets more disagrees than anyone else on this site. Couldn't somebody write a program to do that for him? Or perhaps it could be added to Kudoz as a feature. G.
...then I'll sign it. (I'm all for making his life easier).
Very generously today he already provided answers in 8 different language pairs, so I'm in favour of anything that can help him help others.
[Edited at 2011-04-20 14:07 GMT]
| | | | | | IPtranslate (X)
Brazil
English to Dutch
+ ...
you just made my day! At least someone who knows what is contained in these rules. Perhaps you could do some consulting and enlighten the moderators and staff on proz.
Of course the next step is that we will have to come to a politically correct agreement on what the definition of "guessing systematically" is...
[Edited at 2011-04-20 14:12 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-04-20 14:13 GMT]
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