| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Dystopian translation world Thread poster: Joop Debrabandere
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Hello colleagues,
Last week, I received the most crazy mail from an agency, in which they introduced a price grid for bilingual review. Well, you might think this is a joke, but it isn't.
It looks as follows
Perfect Match 10%
Context Match 10%
Repetition 30%
100% Match 30%
Fuzzy Match 95-99% 40%
Fuzzy Match 85-94% 60%
Fuzzy Match 50-84% 80%
No Match ... See more Hello colleagues,
Last week, I received the most crazy mail from an agency, in which they introduced a price grid for bilingual review. Well, you might think this is a joke, but it isn't.
It looks as follows
Perfect Match 10%
Context Match 10%
Repetition 30%
100% Match 30%
Fuzzy Match 95-99% 40%
Fuzzy Match 85-94% 60%
Fuzzy Match 50-84% 80%
No Match 100%
What are your thoughts on this?
What a dystopian translation world we are now living in.
Currently I have a review job from them with about 4000 unpaid words (due to the high number of repetitions). So I decided I won't be reading the last 4000 words as they are simply not paid. I see no other solution. Or should I really review 4000 words for free??
Joop ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Since you have accepted the job... | Sep 3, 2023 |
Joop Debrabandere wrote:
What a dystopian translation world we are now living in.
Currently I have a review job from them with about 4000 unpaid words (due to the high number of repetitions). So I decided I won't be reading the last 4000 words as they are simply not paid. I see no other solution. Or should I really review 4000 words for free??
Joop
... you should read everything until the end, but refrain from accepting further similar jobs, IMHO.
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The solution is to decline such nonsense. A fuzzy grid is absurd for a review. It would be a major error to accept it.
| | | | | The rate scheme looks pretty good to me | Sep 3, 2023 |
The biggest question for me, however, would be about where the full matches are coming from. If they were from a TM that is populated with my own translations, I'd be OK with the 10% rate. A lot of the time it's actually 0%. But if the TM is built on someone else's translations, then I would definitely not accept a 10% review rate. I would first assess the quality and then, provided the TM translations are editable, I would charge my usual editing rate of 40 to 50% of my translation rate for rev... See more The biggest question for me, however, would be about where the full matches are coming from. If they were from a TM that is populated with my own translations, I'd be OK with the 10% rate. A lot of the time it's actually 0%. But if the TM is built on someone else's translations, then I would definitely not accept a 10% review rate. I would first assess the quality and then, provided the TM translations are editable, I would charge my usual editing rate of 40 to 50% of my translation rate for reviewing them.
More generally, any fuzzy match scheme can be accepted if you simply adjust your base per-word rate to it.
[Edited at 2023-09-03 11:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| It's for reviewing | Sep 3, 2023 |
Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
The rate scheme looks pretty good to me
Do you realise that it's for reviewing, not translation? It's not usual to apply a grid to review rates. Nor does it make any sense.
| | | | | repetitions not visible in wordcount | Sep 3, 2023 |
Christel Zipfel wrote: Joop Debrabandere wrote:
What a dystopian translation world we are now living in.
Currently I have a review job from them with about 4000 unpaid words (due to the high number of repetitions). So I decided I won't be reading the last 4000 words as they are simply not paid. I see no other solution. Or should I really review 4000 words for free??
Joop ... you should read everything until the end, but refrain from accepting further similar jobs, IMHO.
Problem with job was/is, you only see the number of repetitions after accepting and counting yourself..... and the job came about right after their announcement.
The thing is, more and more agencies are getting so desperate to cut costs that they seem to lose their minds....
| | | | | vendor manager | Sep 3, 2023 |
Thomas T. Frost wrote: Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
The rate scheme looks pretty good to me Do you realise that it's for reviewing, not translation? It's not usual to apply a grid to review rates. Nor does it make any sense.
Even the vendor manager agreed it made no sense..... it were the chefs. I was even more or less encouraged to provide bad quality, so that customers would complain and the agency would rethink their policy.... crazy world as I said.
| | | | | Not my own text in memory | Sep 3, 2023 |
Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
The biggest question for me, however, would be about where the full matches are coming from. If they were from a TM that is populated with my own translations, I'd be OK with the 10% rate. A lot of the time it's actually 0%. But if the TM is built on someone else's translations, then I would definitely not accept a 10% review rate. I would first assess the quality and then, provided the TM translations are editable, I would charge my usual editing rate of 40 to 50% of my translation rate for reviewing them.
More generally, any fuzzy match scheme can be accepted if you simply adjust your base per-word rate to it.
[Edited at 2023-09-03 11:03 GMT]
Hi Mikhail,
you're right, if it were my own translations in the TM a reduction in word price might be acceptable, but it aren't mine.
Joop
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Thomas T. Frost wrote:
The solution is to decline such nonsense. A fuzzy grid is absurd for a review. It would be a major error to accept it.
Hi Thomas,
Of course, you are right. But I do get a lot of smaller jobs, without any repetitions that do pay off. So, it is also about not losing a regular client. But I have to admit, in these days, I sometimes think, you can all f*** off. But I still have to earn some money...
Joop
| | | | Thayenga 
Germany
Local time: 23:01
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| The cross of matches | Sep 3, 2023 |
When it comes to translations these rate schemes might work... though I personally don't accept them.
However, applying such a scheme to any type of review work is/should not be acceptable. The rate for 100% matches is 0.00 of any given currency. Getting paid for the actual work you do implies that the 100% matches must not be read. Easier said than done. Especially when it comes to languages like German or Chinese. Just because the word itself is a 100% match doesn't mean that it a... See more When it comes to translations these rate schemes might work... though I personally don't accept them.
However, applying such a scheme to any type of review work is/should not be acceptable. The rate for 100% matches is 0.00 of any given currency. Getting paid for the actual work you do implies that the 100% matches must not be read. Easier said than done. Especially when it comes to languages like German or Chinese. Just because the word itself is a 100% match doesn't mean that it also makes 100% sense in the context of the sentence, but instead turn out to be a 100% nonsense, so to speak.
A good reviewer will, of course, make all the necessary adjustments at... the fabulous rate of 0.00. Therefore, any type of review work should be paid by the hour.
[Edited at 2023-09-03 13:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | 'No' is enough | Sep 3, 2023 |
Joop Debrabandere wrote: Thomas T. Frost wrote: Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
The rate scheme looks pretty good to me Do you realise that it's for reviewing, not translation? It's not usual to apply a grid to review rates. Nor does it make any sense. Even the vendor manager agreed it made no sense..... it were the chefs. I was even more or less encouraged to provide bad quality, so that customers would complain and the agency would rethink their policy.... crazy world as I said.
No matter their excuses, by accepting it, you enable this lunacy and encourage them to do the same again with someone else. That's a major error. You help dragging rates down, harming your colleagues in the process. Rates are low because too many translators accept them and have no idea how to negotiate or stand firm on reasonable payment.
Of course, if you accepted it in a brief moment of insanity, you can pay less attention to detail to avoid spending more time than you are paid for.
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Thomas T. Frost wrote:
No matter their excuses, by accepting it, you enable this lunacy and encourage them to do the same again with someone else. That's a major error. You help dragging rates down, harming your colleagues in the process. Rates are low because too many translators accept them and have no idea how to negotiate or stand firm on reasonable payment.
Of course, if you accepted it in a brief moment of insanity, you can pay less attention to detail to avoid spending more time than you are paid for.
It am actually a tough negotiator. But this was really take it or get lost. I accepted but at the same time raised my min. charge 33%, my standard review rate also 33% and my word price for translation about 8%.
I actually wanted to hear if anyone of you had ever been offered price grids for review (which is actually totally insane).
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| Salami method | Sep 3, 2023 |
Joop Debrabandere wrote:
It am actually a tough negotiator. But this was really take it or get lost. I accepted but at the same time raised my min. charge 33%, my standard review rate also 33% and my word price for translation about 8%.
I actually wanted to hear if anyone of you had ever been offered price grids for review (which is actually totally insane).
I don't see anything tough about accepting a grid for a review. I would tell them to drop the BS or find someone else. You cannot negotiate if you are not willing to walk away.
It's the salami method. Little by little, they slice bits off the rates. Next they'll be coming for your minimum rate. 'I have explained to the other translators that because there are so many small jobs that it can reach €1,000 a month, they should not charge minimum rates, as the client cannot afford to pay thousands for a few words in all the languages.' Total BS. I only ask for €20 minimum, which isn't much, but said I could offer €15, since it's always the same setup and end client.
Accepting an abusive client relationship is the road to ruin.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 22:01
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Joop Debrabandere wrote:
I actually wanted to hear if anyone of you had ever been offered price grids for review (which is actually totally insane).
I've never heard that before and I've never been asked to revise a text by applying any kind of CAT tool grid...
If I was asked to do that, I would refuse and come up with a valid and sensible answer as to why not.
Are you sure it isn't that typical situation when PE of MT content is disguised as a revision work?
I can't imagine how we can rely on a CAT tool grid for revision... Forgive me, but I find it impractical as well as absurd.
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Joop Debrabandere wrote:
Hello colleagues,
Last week, I received the most crazy mail from an agency, in which they introduced a price grid for bilingual review. Well, you might think this is a joke, but it isn't.
It looks as follows
Perfect Match 10%
Context Match 10%
Repetition 30%
100% Match 30%
Fuzzy Match 95-99% 40%
Fuzzy Match 85-94% 60%
Fuzzy Match 50-84% 80%
No Match 100%
What are your thoughts on this?
What a dystopian translation world we are now living in.
Currently I have a review job from them with about 4000 unpaid words (due to the high number of repetitions). So I decided I won't be reading the last 4000 words as they are simply not paid. I see no other solution. Or should I really review 4000 words for free??
Joop
"As you have introduced a discount matrix for reviewing, I am forced to adapt my pricing. My new price fpr reviewing is x.xx per word. I would allways be happy to discuss a return to our previous arrangement."
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